Last updated on December 18th, 2024 at 04:57 am
- Understanding the Discard Phase
- Recognizing Signs of Impending Discard
- Behavioral Red Flags
- Emotional Withdrawal and Distance
- Psychological Mechanisms Behind the Discard
- The Role of Narcissistic Supply
- Devaluation and Replacement
- Emotional Preparation
- Processing Complex Emotions
- Anger and Resentment
- Grief and Loss
- Rebuilding Self-Esteem and Identity
- Practical Steps Before Discard
- Financial Preparation
- Securing Personal Finances
- Documenting Assets and Debts
- Legal Considerations
- Understanding Your Rights
- Consulting with a Lawyer
- Creating a Support Network
- Identifying Trusted Allies
- Seeking Professional Help
- Developing an Exit Strategy
- Safety Planning
- Preparing Essential Documents and Items
- Countering Narcissistic Manipulation
- Recognizing Gaslighting and Love Bombing
- Setting Firm Boundaries
- The Aftermath of Discard
- Coping with Emotional Turmoil
- Dealing with Hoovering Attempts
- Rebuilding Your Life Post-Discard
- Rediscovering Your Identity
- Healing from Narcissistic Abuse
- Frequently Asked Questions
- How Does A Narcissist Typically Discard Their Partner?
- What Are The Signs That A Narcissist Is About To Discard You?
- Why Do Narcissists Discard Their Partners?
- How Can One Prepare For The Inevitable Abandonment By A Narcissist?
- What Is The Narcissistic Discard Cycle?
- How Does Narcissistic Discard Differ From A Normal Breakup?
- What Are The Emotional Effects Of Being Discarded By A Narcissist?
- Can A Narcissist Come Back After Discarding You?
- How Can One Heal After Being Discarded By A Narcissist?
- What Is The “Narcissistic Injury” And How Does It Relate To Discard?
- How Does The Narcissist’s Fear Of Abandonment Relate To Their Tendency To Discard?
- What Role Does Cognitive Dissonance Play In The Narcissistic Discard Phase?
- How Can One Maintain No Contact After Being Discarded By A Narcissist?
- What Is “Hoovering” In The Context Of Narcissistic Discard?
- How Does The Narcissist’s New Relationship After Discard Differ From Their Previous One?
- What Are The Long-Term Effects Of Experiencing Multiple Narcissistic Discards?
- How Can Family And Friends Support Someone Who Has Been Discarded By A Narcissist?
- What Is The Role Of Therapy In Recovering From Narcissistic Discard?
Have you ever felt like you were walking on eggshells, desperately trying to keep someone’s affection? If so, you might be caught in the web of a narcissist’s manipulation.
Let’s face it – loving a narcissist is like riding an emotional rollercoaster blindfolded. One moment, you’re on cloud nine, basking in their adoration. The next, you’re plummeting into an abyss of confusion and self-doubt. But here’s the gut-wrenching truth: the discard is coming, and it’s going to hit you like a ton of bricks.
Don’t panic! This post is your emotional armor, your secret weapon against the impending storm. We’ll unravel the twisted mind games, expose the red flags you’ve been ignoring, and equip you with the tools to reclaim your self-worth.
Find out how to cope with the narcissist’s discard and create a path toward recovery, self-awareness, and strength after this painful experience.
Understanding the Discard Phase
Recognizing Signs of Impending Discard
The discard phase is a harrowing experience for victims of narcissistic abuse. It’s crucial to recognize the signs early to protect yourself emotionally and practically. Your narcissistic husband may exhibit subtle or overt changes in behavior as he prepares to discard you.
Behavioral Red Flags
Watch for these warning signs that your narcissistic husband is planning to discard you:
• Increased criticism and contempt
• Sudden withdrawal of affection
• Frequent comparisons to others
• Escalating verbal abuse
• Blatant disregard for your feelings
These behaviors often intensify as the narcissist mentally prepares to abandon the relationship. Pay attention to your gut feelings and don’t ignore these red flags.
-By Som Dutt from https://embraceinnerchaos.com
Emotional Withdrawal and Distance
Emotional distancing is a telltale sign of impending discard. Your narcissistic husband may:
• Spend less time with you
• Avoid physical intimacy
• Become secretive about his whereabouts
• Show disinterest in your life and concerns
• Prioritize other relationships over yours
This emotional withdrawal can be devastating. It’s a form of narcissistic abuse designed to destabilize you and prepare you for the inevitable abandonment.
Psychological Mechanisms Behind the Discard
Understanding the psychology behind your narcissistic husband’s discard can help you navigate this painful process. Narcissists operate on a different emotional wavelength, driven by their insatiable need for admiration and control.
The Role of Narcissistic Supply
Narcissistic supply is the lifeblood of a narcissist’s ego. It includes:
• Attention and admiration
• Emotional reactions (positive or negative)
• Control over others
• Validation of their perceived superiority
When you no longer provide adequate narcissistic supply, your husband may seek it elsewhere. This depletion of supply often triggers the discard phase.
Devaluation and Replacement
As the narcissist prepares to discard you, he enters a phase of devaluation. This process involves:
• Criticizing your appearance or abilities
• Comparing you unfavorably to others
• Diminishing your accomplishments
• Eroding your self-esteem
Simultaneously, he may be grooming a replacement – someone new to provide fresh narcissistic supply. This “triangulation” further damages your self-worth and prepares you for the impending abandonment.
Emotional Preparation
Processing Complex Emotions
Preparing for the discard by your narcissistic husband involves navigating a tumultuous sea of emotions. It’s essential to acknowledge and process these feelings to begin your healing journey.
Anger and Resentment
Anger is a natural response to the betrayal and manipulation you’ve endured. Allow yourself to feel this anger without judgment. Channel it constructively by:
• Journaling your thoughts and feelings
• Engaging in physical activities to release tension
• Seeking therapy to process your emotions healthily
Remember, your anger is valid and can be a powerful motivator for change.
Grief and Loss
The end of any relationship, even an abusive one, involves grief. You may mourn:
• The loss of your hopes and dreams
• The person you thought your husband was
• Your sense of family and stability
• The time and energy invested in the relationship
Allow yourself to grieve. It’s a crucial step in the healing process. Embrace the pain as a sign of your capacity to love and your resilience in the face of adversity.
Rebuilding Self-Esteem and Identity
Your narcissistic husband likely eroded your self-esteem over time. Now is the time to reclaim your identity and rebuild your sense of self-worth.
Start by challenging negative self-talk. Replace critical thoughts with affirmations of your worth and capabilities. Reconnect with activities and interests that bring you joy and fulfillment.
Surround yourself with supportive people who appreciate your true value. Their positive reinforcement can help counteract the damage done by your narcissistic husband’s constant criticism and devaluation.
Consider seeking professional help to address the psychological impact of narcissistic abuse. A therapist experienced in narcissistic abuse recovery can provide valuable tools and support as you rebuild your self-esteem.
Remember, your worth is not determined by your narcissistic husband’s opinion of you. You are inherently valuable and deserving of love and respect.
Practical Steps Before Discard
Financial Preparation
Financial independence is crucial when preparing for the discard by your narcissistic husband. Take these steps to protect yourself financially:
Securing Personal Finances
• Open a separate bank account in your name only
• Start saving money secretly if possible
• Obtain a credit card in your name to build credit
• Review and understand your credit report
These actions provide a financial safety net and increase your options post-discard.
-By Som Dutt from https://embraceinnerchaos.com
Documenting Assets and Debts
Create a comprehensive list of all assets and debts, including:
• Bank accounts and investments
• Real estate and vehicles
• Personal property of significant value
• Credit card balances and loans
This documentation will be invaluable during potential legal proceedings. Store these records in a safe place your narcissistic husband can’t access.
Legal Considerations
Preparing legally for the discard is essential to protect your rights and interests.
Understanding Your Rights
Research your legal rights regarding:
• Property division
• Child custody and support
• Spousal support or alimony
• Protection from abuse
Knowledge is power. Understanding your rights empowers you to make informed decisions during this challenging time.
Consulting with a Lawyer
Seek legal advice from an attorney experienced in narcissistic abuse cases. They can guide you on:
• Protecting your assets
• Securing necessary documentation
• Preparing for potential custody battles
• Obtaining restraining orders if necessary
A skilled lawyer can be your advocate and help level the playing field against your manipulative narcissistic husband.
Creating a Support Network
Identifying Trusted Allies
Building a strong support network is crucial when preparing for the discard by your narcissistic husband. Identify people you can trust with your situation, such as:
• Close friends who understand your struggle
• Supportive family members
• Colleagues who can provide professional support
• Members of support groups for narcissistic abuse survivors
These allies can offer emotional support, practical assistance, and a safe space to express your feelings without judgment.
Seeking Professional Help
Professional support is invaluable during this challenging time. Consider reaching out to:
• Therapists specializing in narcissistic abuse recovery
• Domestic violence counselors
• Life coaches focused on personal empowerment
• Financial advisors to guide you through economic challenges
Professional help can provide you with tools to navigate the complex emotions and practical challenges of leaving a narcissistic husband.
Developing an Exit Strategy
Safety Planning
Your safety is paramount when preparing to leave a narcissistic husband. Develop a comprehensive safety plan that includes:
• A safe place to go if you need to leave quickly
• A coded message to alert trusted friends or family of danger
• An emergency bag with essential items and documents
• A plan for children or pets if applicable
Remember, narcissists can become dangerous when they feel they’re losing control. Prioritize your safety above all else.
Preparing Essential Documents and Items
Gather and secure important documents and items, including:
• Identification documents (driver’s license, passport, birth certificate)
• Financial records (bank statements, tax returns, pay stubs)
• Legal documents (marriage certificate, property deeds, car titles)
• Personal items of sentimental or monetary value
Store these items in a safe place outside your home, such as a safety deposit box or with a trusted friend.
Countering Narcissistic Manipulation
Recognizing Gaslighting and Love Bombing
As you prepare for the discard, your narcissistic husband may intensify his manipulation tactics. Be aware of:
Gaslighting: This tactic makes you question your reality. Your husband might deny events, twist your words, or claim you’re “too sensitive.”
Love bombing: A sudden surge of affection and attention designed to keep you hooked. It’s often followed by renewed abuse.
Recognize these tactics for what they are: attempts to maintain control over you.
Setting Firm Boundaries
Establishing and maintaining boundaries is crucial when dealing with a narcissistic husband. Here’s how to set firm boundaries:
• Clearly communicate your limits
• Stick to your decisions despite manipulation attempts
• Use “I” statements to express your needs
• Avoid justifying or over-explaining your boundaries
Remember, you have the right to set boundaries. Your narcissistic husband’s reaction to these boundaries is not your responsibility.
The Aftermath of Discard
Coping with Emotional Turmoil
The period immediately following the discard can be emotionally devastating. You may experience a whirlwind of feelings, including:
• Shock and disbelief
• Intense sadness and grief
• Anger and resentment
• Relief mixed with guilt
Allow yourself to feel these emotions without judgment. They’re a normal part of the healing process. Practice self-compassion and patience as you navigate this challenging time.
Dealing with Hoovering Attempts
Be prepared for hoovering attempts from your narcissistic husband. Hoovering is a manipulation tactic designed to suck you back into the relationship. Common hoovering techniques include:
• Sudden declarations of love and promises to change
• Playing the victim to elicit sympathy
• Using mutual friends or family to reach out to you
• “Coincidental” encounters in public places
-By Som Dutt from https://embraceinnerchaos.com
Rebuilding Your Life Post-Discard
Rediscovering Your Identity
After the discard, you have the opportunity to rediscover and redefine yourself. This process involves:
• Reconnecting with your passions and interests
• Setting new goals for your personal and professional life
• Exploring aspects of yourself that were suppressed in the relationship
• Cultivating self-love and acceptance
Embrace this chance to create a life that truly reflects your values and desires.
Healing from Narcissistic Abuse
Healing from narcissistic abuse is a journey that requires time, patience, and self-compassion. Consider these steps in your healing process:
• Educate yourself about narcissistic abuse and its effects
• Practice self-care routinely
• Engage in therapy or support groups
• Use mindfulness and meditation to manage anxiety and stress
From Embrace Inner Chaos to your inbox
Transform your Chaos into authentic personal growth – sign up for our free weekly newsletter! Stay informed on the latest research advancements covering:
Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD)
Frequently Asked Questions
How Does A Narcissist Typically Discard Their Partner?
A narcissist’s discard phase is characterized by a sudden and dramatic shift in behavior, often leaving their partner feeling confused and abandoned. According to Psychology Today, the narcissist may abruptly withdraw emotional support, affection, and attention that were previously abundant during the idealization stage. This sudden change can manifest through silent treatment, open criticism, or even flaunting new relationships.
The discard phase is designed to inflict maximum emotional damage and reinforce the narcissist’s sense of power and control. It can be particularly traumatic for the partner, as it often comes without warning and contradicts the intense affection shown earlier in the relationship. This behavior serves as a manipulative tactic, further destabilizing the partner’s emotional state and sense of reality.
What Are The Signs That A Narcissist Is About To Discard You?
Recognizing the signs of an impending narcissistic discard can help prepare for the inevitable abandonment. Psych Central outlines several key indicators, including increased devaluation, where the narcissist becomes more critical and dismissive of their partner. Another red flag is a noticeable decrease in communication, with the narcissist responding less frequently or with shorter, colder messages.
The narcissist might also start to openly admire or pursue other potential sources of supply, often in front of their current partner. Additionally, they may provoke more arguments or create unnecessary drama, using these conflicts as justification for their eventual departure. It’s important to note that these signs can be subtle and may escalate gradually, making them easy to miss or rationalize away.
Why Do Narcissists Discard Their Partners?
Narcissists discard their partners for various reasons, all stemming from their deep-seated insecurities and need for control. Very Well Mind explains that one primary reason is the depletion of narcissistic supply, where a partner no longer provides the constant admiration and attention the narcissist craves. Another reason is the narcissist’s fear of intimacy and vulnerability, leading them to end things before they can be abandoned themselves.
Additionally, narcissists often discard partners who begin to see through their façade or challenge their behavior, as this threatens their carefully constructed self-image. The discard serves as a way for the narcissist to regain control and avoid confronting their own insecurities and shortcomings. Ultimately, this behavior pattern reflects the narcissist’s inability to maintain healthy, long-term relationships.
How Can One Prepare For The Inevitable Abandonment By A Narcissist?
Preparing for the inevitable abandonment by a narcissist involves both emotional and practical steps. Healthline suggests starting by educating yourself about narcissistic personality disorder and the typical patterns of narcissistic relationships. This knowledge can help you understand that the discard is not a reflection of your worth, but rather a manifestation of the narcissist’s own issues.
Building a strong support network of friends, family, or a therapist is crucial for emotional support during and after the discard. Practically, it’s wise to secure your finances and important documents, as narcissists may attempt to use these as leverage. Developing a self-care routine and working on rebuilding your self-esteem can also help cushion the emotional impact of the discard.
What Is The Narcissistic Discard Cycle?
The narcissistic discard cycle is a repetitive pattern of behavior that narcissists often exhibit in relationships. Medical News Today describes this cycle as consisting of three main phases: idealization, devaluation, and discard. During the idealization phase, the narcissist showers their partner with attention and affection, often referred to as “love bombing.” This is followed by the devaluation phase, where the narcissist begins to criticize and belittle their partner, eroding their self-esteem.
Finally, the discard phase occurs when the narcissist abandons their partner, often abruptly and without explanation. However, the cycle doesn’t always end here. Many narcissists engage in “hoovering,” where they attempt to draw their partner back in, starting the cycle anew. Understanding this cycle can help individuals recognize the pattern and make informed decisions about their relationships.
How Does Narcissistic Discard Differ From A Normal Breakup?
Narcissistic discard differs significantly from a normal breakup in several key aspects. Psychology Today explains that while normal breakups are often mutual decisions or at least involve some level of communication and closure, narcissistic discards are typically one-sided and abrupt. In a normal breakup, both parties usually acknowledge the relationship’s issues and may attempt to work through them, whereas a narcissist often blindsides their partner with the discard, offering little to no explanation.
Another crucial difference is the emotional aftermath. Normal breakups, while painful, generally allow for healing and growth. Narcissistic discards, however, often leave the discarded partner with severe emotional trauma, damaged self-esteem, and confusion about what went wrong. Additionally, narcissists may continue to manipulate their ex-partner post-discard through tactics like intermittent reinforcement or smear campaigns, prolonging the emotional turmoil.
What Are The Emotional Effects Of Being Discarded By A Narcissist?
Being discarded by a narcissist can have profound and long-lasting emotional effects on the victim. Verywell Mind outlines several common emotional responses, including intense feelings of rejection, abandonment, and worthlessness. The abrupt nature of the discard often leaves victims feeling shocked and confused, struggling to make sense of what happened.
This confusion can lead to self-doubt and a distorted sense of reality, as victims question their own perceptions and memories of the relationship. Anxiety and depression are also common, stemming from the emotional abuse endured during the relationship and the trauma of the discard. Many victims also struggle with trust issues in future relationships, fearing abandonment or manipulation.
Can A Narcissist Come Back After Discarding You?
Yes, it’s quite common for a narcissist to return after discarding their partner, a behavior known as “hoovering.” Psych Central explains that narcissists often cycle through relationships, discarding and returning multiple times. This return is typically motivated by the narcissist’s need for narcissistic supply, rather than genuine care or remorse.
The narcissist might use various tactics to re-engage, such as love bombing, making grand promises of change, or playing on their ex-partner’s emotions and insecurities. It’s crucial to understand that this return rarely signifies real change or a healthier relationship dynamic. Instead, it often marks the beginning of another cycle of idealization, devaluation, and discard.
How Can One Heal After Being Discarded By A Narcissist?
Healing after being discarded by a narcissist is a challenging but crucial process. Healthline suggests several strategies for recovery, starting with establishing and maintaining no contact with the narcissist, as continued interaction can hinder healing. Seeking professional help, such as therapy or counseling, can provide valuable support and guidance in processing the trauma.
Practicing self-care and self-compassion is essential; this might include engaging in activities you enjoy, maintaining a healthy lifestyle, and being patient with your healing process. Educating yourself about narcissistic personality disorder can help you understand that the discard was not your fault. Rebuilding your self-esteem and rediscovering your own identity, separate from the narcissist, is a crucial part of healing.
What Is The “Narcissistic Injury” And How Does It Relate To Discard?
Narcissistic injury refers to any perceived threat to a narcissist’s fragile self-esteem or self-image. Psychology Today explains that this concept is closely related to the discard phase in narcissistic relationships. When a narcissist experiences a narcissistic injury, often triggered by criticism, disagreement, or a perceived lack of admiration from their partner, they may react with rage or by discarding the person who caused the injury.
The discard serves as a defense mechanism, allowing the narcissist to protect their ego and regain a sense of control. It’s important to understand that the narcissistic injury often has little to do with the partner’s actual behavior and more to do with the narcissist’s internal insecurities. This concept helps explain why narcissists might suddenly discard a partner who has been loyal and supportive, as even minor perceived slights can trigger a severe narcissistic injury.
How Does The Narcissist’s Fear Of Abandonment Relate To Their Tendency To Discard?
The narcissist’s fear of abandonment plays a paradoxical role in their tendency to discard partners. Verywell Mind explains that despite their outward appearance of confidence and self-sufficiency, narcissists often harbor deep-seated fears of abandonment stemming from childhood experiences or insecurities. This fear manifests in seemingly contradictory behavior: they may cling desperately to relationships, yet also be quick to discard partners.
The discard serves as a preemptive strike against potential abandonment. By being the one to end the relationship, the narcissist maintains control and avoids the vulnerability of being left. This behavior is often unconscious, driven by the narcissist’s fragile ego and need for emotional self-protection. Understanding this dynamic can help partners of narcissists make sense of the confusing and hurtful experience of being discarded.
What Role Does Cognitive Dissonance Play In The Narcissistic Discard Phase?
Cognitive dissonance plays a significant role in the narcissistic discard phase, often making it difficult for victims to process and accept what’s happening. Psych Central describes cognitive dissonance as the mental discomfort experienced when holding two contradictory beliefs simultaneously. In the context of narcissistic relationships, this often manifests as the discrepancy between the idealized version of the partner and relationship (created during the love-bombing phase) and the reality of the narcissist’s abusive behavior during devaluation and discard.
Victims may struggle to reconcile these conflicting perceptions, often clinging to the hope that the “real” partner will return. This cognitive dissonance can make it challenging for victims to recognize the abuse and take steps to protect themselves. Understanding and addressing this cognitive dissonance is often a crucial step in healing from narcissistic abuse and moving forward after the discard.
How Can One Maintain No Contact After Being Discarded By A Narcissist?
Maintaining no contact after being discarded by a narcissist is crucial for healing but can be challenging. Healthline offers several strategies to help maintain this boundary, starting with blocking the narcissist on all communication channels, including phone, email, and social media. This reduces the temptation to reach out or respond to their attempts at contact.
Creating a support system of friends, family, or a therapist can provide emotional support and accountability in maintaining no contact. Developing a self-care routine and focusing on personal growth can help fill the void left by the relationship. It’s also helpful to remind yourself of the reasons for no contact, perhaps by keeping a list of the narcissist’s abusive behaviors to review when feeling weak.
What Is “Hoovering” In The Context Of Narcissistic Discard?
“Hoovering” is a manipulative tactic often employed by narcissists after the discard phase, named after the Hoover vacuum for its sucking motion. Psychology Today explains that hoovering involves attempts by the narcissist to re-engage with their discarded partner, often through grand gestures, promises of change, or appeals to shared history and emotions. This behavior is typically motivated by the narcissist’s need for narcissistic supply, rather than genuine remorse or desire for reconciliation.
Hoovering can take many forms, from seemingly innocent “check-in” messages to elaborate declarations of love and change. It’s important to recognize hoovering as a continuation of the narcissistic abuse cycle, not as a genuine attempt at reconciliation. Understanding this tactic can help victims maintain boundaries and resist being drawn back into a toxic relationship cycle.
How Does The Narcissist’s New Relationship After Discard Differ From Their Previous One?
The narcissist’s new relationship after discard often follows a similar pattern to their previous relationships, despite appearances to the contrary. Verywell Mind explains that narcissists typically idealize their new partners initially, showering them with attention and affection in a phase known as love bombing. This can make it seem like the new relationship is dramatically different or better than the previous one.
However, this is usually just the beginning of the same cycle of idealization, devaluation, and discard. The new partner may be portrayed as perfect or superior to the previous partner, which can be particularly hurtful for the discarded individual. It’s important to remember that this idealization is not a reflection of the new partner’s worth compared to the previous one, but rather a manifestation of the narcissist’s pattern of behavior.
What Are The Long-Term Effects Of Experiencing Multiple Narcissistic Discards?
Experiencing multiple narcissistic discards can have profound and lasting effects on an individual’s mental and emotional well-being. Medical News Today outlines several potential long-term consequences, including chronic feelings of unworthiness and a deep-seated fear of rejection. This may result in difficulty forming healthy relationships in the future, as the individual may struggle with trust issues or become hyper-vigilant about potential signs of abandonment.
Multiple discards can also contribute to the development of complex post-traumatic stress disorder (C-PTSD), characterized by symptoms such as flashbacks, nightmares, and difficulty regulating emotions. Additionally, individuals may internalize the narcissist’s criticisms and manipulations, leading to a distorted self-image and chronic self-doubt. It’s important to recognize these effects and seek professional help to work through the trauma and rebuild a healthy sense of self.
How Can Family And Friends Support Someone Who Has Been Discarded By A Narcissist?
Family and friends play a crucial role in supporting someone who has been discarded by a narcissist. Psych Central suggests several ways to provide effective support, starting with believing and validating the person’s experiences. Narcissistic abuse can be subtle and confusing, and victims often doubt their own perceptions. Offering a listening ear without judgment can be incredibly healing.
Educating yourself about narcissistic personality disorder and the dynamics of narcissistic relationships can help you understand what your loved one has been through. Encouraging and supporting them in seeking professional help, such as therapy, can be beneficial. Practical support, like helping with daily tasks or providing a safe space, can also be valuable. It’s important to be patient, as healing from narcissistic abuse takes time.
What Is The Role Of Therapy In Recovering From Narcissistic Discard?
Therapy plays a crucial role in recovering from narcissistic discard, offering a safe space to process trauma and rebuild self-esteem. Healthline explains that therapists specializing in narcissistic abuse can help survivors understand the dynamics of their relationship and recognize that the abuse was not their fault. Cognitive-behavioral therapy (CBT) can be particularly effective in challenging and reframing negative thought patterns instilled by the narcissist.
Trauma-focused therapies, such as Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR), can help process traumatic memories associated with the abuse. Therapy also provides tools for setting healthy boundaries, improving self-care, and rebuilding a sense of self separate from the narcissist’s influence. Additionally, group therapy or support groups can offer validation and community with others who have had similar experiences.
